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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Dear Markus,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I was expecting your reply. Here are answers to your questions:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>(1) What motivated your selection of this particular loop? Judging from your<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Figure 2 is appears that you analyzed about the dimmest segment of a loop,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>where one would expect substantial confusion by the background due to the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>low signal-to-noise ratio of the loop.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>>>Actually there are plenty of counts. The signal-to-noise was just fine, and there was no confusion with background. As we say in the Letter, we were looking for a loop segment in 171 with a simple background. This one fit the bill nicely. It was not the only loop we selected. We are working on a larger paper using more loops from different active regions. Please stay tuned.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>(2) What are the total fluxes F_tot and background fluxes F_bg that you<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>used in your DEM modeling of the loop fluxes F_loop=F_tot - F_bg <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>in the 6 coronal AIA filters? If the reader knows these 12 numbers, <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>one could verify or reproduce your DEM modeling.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>>>We’ve already used two quite different DEM methods on these data and gotten very similar results, and personally, I do not want a repeat of what happened after your re-analysis of our CDS loop data. (If anyone is reading this and does not know what I’m talking about, that’s probably a good thing.) I think what might be of greater interest is an entirely independent analysis of your own.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>Also, you don’t just need 12 numbers; you need the uncertainties as well. These are extremely important, especially for loops that are not visible in all the filters. We always want high- and low-temperature constraints, but we also need to know how strong those constraints are. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>(3) What are the cross-sectional flux profiles F_tot(x), F_bg(x), F_loop(x)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>you inferred at the analyzed loop segments. If you show these profiles to the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>reader, one could inquire or judge whether the same loop or multiple loops<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>are seen at the analyzed location of the loop, and what the background<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>contamination in the loop flux could be.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>Same as (2) above.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>(4) How did you deal with the 94 A response function in the DEM modeling.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>After some discussion with Jim Lemen and Harry Warren last week I learned<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>that the response of the cooler line misses a lot of contributions from Fe X transitions<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>and thus the observed flux at log(T)~6.0-6.1 is substantially higher than predicted<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>by the current online response function. I am currently try to come up with an<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>empirical reponse function of the 94 A filter and find that the response below<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>log(T)<6.2 needs to be boosted by a factor of approximately 5-10 to be consistent<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>with the other filters. I will let you know once I have more accurate estimates.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>>>Excellent! I am glad others are now spreading the word on this problem. Nancy Brickhouse told me about these cool lines (see Lepson et al. 2002) several years ago and we alerted the CfA AIA team. An explanation and Nancy’s scaling were part of my Cospar AIA DEM talk. BTW, it's not just Fe X but also Fe IX and quite possibly some other cooler lines (according to what Peter Beiersdorfer told Nancy a few weeks ago). Fortunately, the LLNL experimental group is now funded to do further studies, but we'd of course be interested in your empirical calibration for comparison.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>(5) Just as a minor comment: You are correct that some early papers used<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>filter ratios, like the one you quoted from (1991), but most later studies used<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>forward-fitting of DEMs, rather than filter ratios, so it is a kind of beating a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>dead horse to emphasize that filter-ratio methods are inadequate if one<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>wants to investigate the multi-thermal temperature structure.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>We still hear that horse breathing every so often . . . but no one would be happier than I if it were officially declared dead and buried.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>(6) You quoted a pixel size of 0.5" for AIA, but it is actually 0.6",<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>while it was 0.5" for TRACE. The actual spatial resolution is about<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>2.0-2.5 pixels (Boerner). There is also a draft now on the initial<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>calibration of AIA by Boerner et al. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>We are all looking forward to the publication of the AIA instrument papers. Are they publically available yet?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Joan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> loops-bounces@solar.physics.montana.edu [mailto:loops-bounces@solar.physics.montana.edu] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Markus J. Aschwanden<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 22, 2010 11:01 AM<br><b>To:</b> A mailing list for scientists involved in the observation and modeling of solar loop structures<br><b>Subject:</b> [Loops] Comments and questions about new AIA Loop Paper<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Dear Joan,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>You tackled loop modeling with AIA data, an ideal dataset on which we place<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>high hopes to make progress in the understanding of their thermal structure.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I have developed a DEM forward-fitting code to AIA data over that last weeks<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>and would very much like to test it on the same data set you analyzed. So, I have<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>a few questions (and also comments), after I read your paper:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>(1) What motivated your selection of this particular loop? Judging from your<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Figure 2 is appears that you analyzed about the dimmest segment of a loop,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>where one would expect substantial confusion by the background due to the<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>low signal-to-noise ratio of the loop.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>(2) What are the total fluxes F_tot and background fluxes F_bg that you<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>used in your DEM modeling of the loop fluxes F_loop=F_tot - F_bg <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>in the 6 coronal AIA filters? If the reader knows these 12 numbers, <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>one could verify or reproduce your DEM modeling.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>(3) What are the cross-sectional flux profiles F_tot(x), F_bg(x), F_loop(x)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>you inferred at the analyzed loop segments. If you show these profiles to the<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>reader, one could inquire or judge whether the same loop or multiple loops<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>are seen at the analyzed location of the loop, and what the background<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>contamination in the loop flux could be.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>(4) How did you deal with the 94 A response function in the DEM modeling.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>After some discussion with Jim Lemen and Harry Warren last week I learned<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>that the response of the cooler line misses a lot of contributions from Fe X transitions<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>and thus the observed flux at log(T)~6.0-6.1 is substantially higher than predicted<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>by the current online response function. I am currently try to come up with an<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>empirical reponse function of the 94 A filter and find that the response below<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>log(T)<6.2 needs to be boosted by a factor of approximately 5-10 to be consistent<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>with the other filters. I will let you know once I have more accurate estimates.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>(5) Just as a minor comment: You are correct that some early papers used<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>filter ratios, like the one you quoted from (1991), but most later studies used<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>forward-fitting of DEMs, rather than filter ratios, so it is a kind of beating a<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>dead horse to emphasize that filter-ratio methods are inadequate if one<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>wants to investigate the multi-thermal temperature structure.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>(6) You quoted a pixel size of 0.5" for AIA, but it is actually 0.6",<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>while it was 0.5" for TRACE. The actual spatial resolution is about<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>2.0-2.5 pixels (Boerner). There is also a draft now on the initial<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>calibration of AIA by Boerner et al. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Looking forward to your complimentary information of your analysis.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>It would be useful to show the parameters of item (2) and (3) in every <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>loop modeling paper. Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Markus<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Nov 17, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Joan T Schmelz (jschmelz) wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Dear Loop Lovers,<span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The attached paper on AIA multithermal loop analysis has just been published in ApJ Letters. Comments welcome!<span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:blue'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>ATMOSPHERIC IMAGING ASSEMBLY MULTITHERMAL LOOP ANALYSIS: FIRST RESULTS</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>by</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>J. T. Schmelz, J. A. Kimble, B. S. Jenkins, B. T. Worley, D. J. Anderson, S. Pathak, and S. H. Saar</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='color:black'> </span></i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>ABSTRACT</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>The Atmospheric Imaging Assembly (AIA) on board the<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><i>Solar Dynamics Observatory<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></i>has state-of-the-art spatial</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>resolution and shows the most detailed images of coronal loops ever observed. The series of coronal filters</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>peak at different temperatures, which span the range of active regions. These features represent a significant</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>improvement over earlier coronal imagers and make AIA ideal for multithermal analysis. Here, we targeted</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>a 171 Å coronal loop in AR 11092 observed by AIA on 2010 August 3. Isothermal analysis using the</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>171-to-193 ratio gave a temperature of log<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><i>T<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></i>≈ 6.1, similar to the results of Extreme ultraviolet Imaging</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Spectrograph (EIT) and<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><i>TRACE</i>. Differential emission measure analysis, however, showed that the plasma was</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>multithermal, not isothermal, with the bulk of the emission measure at log<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><i>T ><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></i>6.1. The result from the isothermal</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>analysis, which is the average of the true plasma distribution weighted by the instrument response functions,</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>appears to be deceptively low. These results have potentially serious implications: EIT and<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><i>TRACE<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></i>results,</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>which use the same isothermal method, show substantially smaller temperature gradients than predicted by</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>standard models for loops in hydrodynamic equilibrium and have been used as strong evidence in support of</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>footpoint heating models. These implications may have to be re-examined in the wake of new results from AIA.</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Regards,</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Joan</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'><ApJ_725_L34.pdf>_______________________________________________<br>Loops mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Loops@solar.physics.montana.edu">Loops@solar.physics.montana.edu</a><br><a href="https://mithra.physics.montana.edu/mailman/listinfo/loops">https://mithra.physics.montana.edu/mailman/listinfo/loops</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>____________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Dr. Markus J. Aschwanden<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Solar & Astrophysics Laboratory<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Lockheed Martin Advanced Techology Center<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Org. ADBS, Bldg. 252<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>3251 Hanover St., Palo Alto, CA 94304, USA<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Phone: 650-424-4001, FAX: 650-424-3994<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>URL: <a href="http://www.lmsal.com/~aschwand/">http://www.lmsal.com/~aschwand/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>e-mail: <a href="mailto:aschwanden@lmsal.com">aschwanden@lmsal.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>_______________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>____________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>